after all this time… it kinda still hurts…

First romance, first love, is something so special to all of us, both emotionally and physically, that it touches our lives and enriches them forever.

wow… so.. what can i say… i normally log into Tim’s account to just add applications on FB.. and then play them.. i guess a semi cheat way!? lol.
I know… i know… i normally never do any snooping…. because. meh.. there isn’t anything that i have to read or want to… even though his inbox is flooding with msgs…

I’m not that much of a crazy person. Either way… i was in there.. curiosity got the better of me.. and i see one from his dad. Now… he has this on/off relationship with his dad.. as he wasn’t there when he was growing up.. so i read.
It was heartfelt.. and you know.. maybe i shouldn’t have read it.. But it goes on to say that he had a gf… and i’m like. ok. Well.. normally i know.. normally he tells me these things. So… i was a bit.. oh ok. Thats a good thing that he has one! But as i kept reading.. there was a congratulations on a baby. WOW… now this is where i just stopped… and it didn’t really hit. That was weeks ago…..

Now it kinda hurts… enough that.. it brings tears to my eyes…. I don’t know what kind of hurt, whether it wasn’t me… or.. the fact that i didn’t know… and its how i found out & i still don’t know… i took a closer look into his profile… he has me in a “friends” list// that is just me… which i never realised… not blocked from anything.. but just a page full of my feeds…
It just confuses me… i always thought i’d be one of the people he called up.. i know whenever i am happy or really sad that he is one of.. or the first person i call.
mmmm….

Even though we haven’t spoken in sooo long… since the beginning break ups of me and john..and the last thing we said were to just stop talking.. i didn’t think it cutted out… things that are happening in our lives. Well major events…

09-09-09

so its my 27th birthday today! woooot… i love this day sooo much!!!!
its like the best one i’ve had.. in all the years that i have been alive!
DATE WISE!. ehehehehe…
09.09.09 add them up… you get 27 (my age!) add 2+7=9!
September has 9 letters.
The day is Wednesday = 9 letters
and its the 252nd day of the year… add that up 9!

ok so that is … a bit gay.. but meh! ehheeh i love it.

Nothing wow… tonight but dinner with the cousins… and then the weekend.

i’m an angry person

wow…. i’m such an angry person today!
Bloody rang optus again, about the increase of the phone call charges internationally.
ONLY to find out that there are no notes written about it! So much for calling me back next week!!!

So this unfortunate Margaret, is coping a bitchiness from me… because i’m fed up, and don’t want to pay 55% more on the bills in the past couple of months when i shuold be getting a refund! Damn i’m so angry.
Why can’t some people just do their bloody jobs… Never had this problem with Vodafone! maybe thats a sign right there!

Virgo Woman

Virgo Woman
One thing you need to know about a Virgo woman – she has guts and lots of them! It doesn’t mean that she is not as shy and as reserved as she seems to be. It’s just that she can do anything and everything for the people she loves. By love, she mean real love, no other type of love exists for her. A Virgo female is a complete woman! She has all the charms and tricks that any other female has, but she is not weak. Infact, she has quite a determination and can do anything if she sets her mind to it.

She will be completely devoted and loyal to you in a relationship. Still, if it doesn’t seems to be working, she will severe all the ties and become as cold as the North Pole. Virgo women’s characteristics profile is an odd mix of emotions and practicality, romance and common sense. When they fall in love, they show such extreme passion and intensity that only few other women can. Making them fall in love is, however, an entirely different task. They will demand total perfection from you, even though they may fall short in that arena.

It’s better to get used to their critical nature. A Virgo girl believes that she is extremely efficient and organized and what is more annoying is, that she is right. She is a stickler for time and it’s better not to be late when you are meeting her. She will not break the new, expensive vase when she is upset, but she can be very demanding and fussy. If the fault is yours, admit that you are wrong and say it while handing her the flowers. Don’t even try to argue, or she will lose her temper again.

It is better to leave her alone for sometime and she will cool again. On the other hand, a Virgo woman will find it very hard to accept that she is wrong. The fact is, most of the time she’s not. When you are courting her as well as after you get married, it is advisable to mind your manners. She cannot tolerate someone using abusive language, coming late, dressing sloppily, not minding table manners, etc. It’s better to brush up your vocabulary too. She will not cling to you, nor will she become totally aloof.

She is also very good with finances and extravagance is not one of her personality traits. A Virgo female cannot stand public displays of affection and it is better to be subtle in this area. Her taste is very good and her intellect quite developed. If you are trying to woo her, take her to places like theatre, art gallery, etc. Just like a typical Virgo, she is prone to worrying about things too much and she will do your part of the job too. She is very much attached to the ground and prefers to live in the real world.

You let a Virgo female do her part of making things seem just perfect and she will keep you entertained with all her feminine charms. She is very sensitive and her feelings are pretty fragile, but she will become exceedingly strong when you need her support. With kids, she will be very considerate and you will never see them running around in their underclothes. She will gentle, but firm and will demand complete discipline from them. Even though a Virgo woman is very critical, she will not take criticism very nicely. It never works the other way round for her.

The reason for this is that she is as aware of her own imperfections as she is of yours. So, she doesn’t need you to remind her of her own shortcomings every now and then. Instead of fretting over her perfectionism, you should feel blessed to have such a charming female who never makes your house look like a garbage dump. Your toast will never get burnt and your coffee will always taste just perfect. She has a witty side too and when she laughs, it seems like the ringing of little bells, doesn’t it!

http://www.iloveindia.com/astrology/sun-signs/virgo/woman.html
================================

Just got back from Europe…ahhh sighs.. so tired.. 5am.. no and cant sleep and i have to work today. Booo……

What if finding the love of ur life, meant changing the life that u loved?

“It is better to lose your pride with someone you love rather than to lose that someone you love with your useless pride.”

So…an update….. (been sick / tired / lazy / busy…. )

John and i talked, i layed it all down.. that if he wants this…. he is going to have to make a decision… i’m not going to be here forever waiting on him… So… figured i’d tell him what i felt / wanted and he can talk to me when he has made a decision. And if i’m still around… then all is good.. because he wanted to do what he thought was right for the relationship.
When it comes to relationships… how would one ever know what is right? I don’t think its something you can control… as its 2 people with 2 different thoughts. One way works for one person.. but doesn’t work for another. So… really… one of you could destroy it.. rather than fixing it.

I told him that i’d rather be miserable with him…… than be miserable wtihout him.

Yes, no one should be miserable in anything… but its gotten to that point… i talked to him the other day… as he asked how i felt.. but i knew i couldn’t ‘chat’ to him, so i sent him an email.
That, being with him soothes my heartache… but in return… i’d lose everything else in life that matters to me.. like friends etc.
While if i’m not with him…. my heart would ache… and i’d have everyone else in life that matters. Really its a choice i needed to make.
I chose to be with him…… and yet…
when i write him this email…. he just responds with a hate email…. being exactly the person that he said he wouldn’t be… it was like as if.. he didn’t even read the email itself.
saying he would let me walk all over him and all this other stuff… bringing all this crap up… while in the email i said.. i’ll do whatever it is he wanted.. i’ll watch dvds with him.. i’ll cook clean. whateva.. as long as i had him. I’d give up all of who i am.. just to have him…..
yet… it seemed he didn’t get it.. or he just didn’t read it… and just tells me to grow up.
Then just proceeds to yell at me through the remaining of the rest of the email…. i don’t even know what i did wrong then….

he goes to apologise… but i don’t even know if he realised what he did.. i don’t even know what he is apologising for.
Is he apologising for the things he said? how can he…. its things that he means.. and its problems he has always had….. i dont see him changing any of those thoughts.
Is he apologising for not understanding my email in the first place?
I just don’t know.

Then its his bday coming up… the one weekend i have in europe.. and you know… for someone who does want to spend the rest of their lives with me.. won’t see me for that weekend, because he asked ppl to take a day off. And that the only friend he has.. might come.. so the rest… not so important. But more important so.. that he wont see me…
yet he proceeds to tell me that its my fault for booking my holiday…
i waited.. for the last minute to book. or what.. spend 5 weeks not knowing what i am doing.. and not being able to tell my family what i am doing / where i am staying? i can see him letting me get on a plane… if that were the case
having to find rooms to stay in etc. I think he seems to forget that i don’t live there.. its not as simple as… booking something and going home if it doesn’t fall through. I am a female.. i am travelling alone.. and he hasn’t told me to not change my plans otherwise.. when i’ve told him i haven’t booked anything hoping he’d wanna spend it with me.
Instead i originally got.. i’ll TRY to se you on the sunday….
to now.. he can fit me in.. sat night and sunday…. but i go down there to him… and after he meets up with the other ppl, and maybe 1 mate.
The thought of that 1 mate.. makes me struggle with myself… and who i say i will be…. i know… in any normal situation… i’d say fuck this… some guy … that isn’t willing to see me.. despite reasons.. and says he loves me… would do it. And if he wouldn’t… it obviously goes to show where his priorities are. I am thinking it… and if i ever saw her.. i’d kill her probably. I have that much hatred… gosh.. when a friend of mine just deleted me of facebook.. it was the end of our friendship… permanently.. regardless of how many years i’ve known her.. and was my bestfriend for however long… and this chick… ain’t nothing to me.. yyet blocks me.. so if i can’t get over it with my own friends… i doubt i’d ever be ok with her. Just thinking about it.. makes my blood boil…
but i say nothing…… i agree to go down there.. i agree that i’ll just see him that one day.

I surrender to the fact that john won’t ever fight for me.. and that romance as u call it.. can be dead.. in our relationship. Because its not the flowers… or the candles…. that makes a girls heart melt.. its the big gesture… for all the girls out there… you know this… you know.. that if a guy cheats on you. .beats on you… whatever the case…..
there is that one big gesture that you know.. deep down.. that if he did… all would be forgiven… obviously, to each girl.. the big gesture is something different..

I think we should sue Disney for making us as little girls, believe that we have a prince, and we’ll live happily ever after!

So now all i have to do… is keep my mouth shut, and deal with what he wants… and be happy that i guess i have 1 evening to see him. Because i’m going out there to see him. Because if i don’t go out there, he wouldn’t come to me, because he can’t… he has other priorities… / commitments…. that he can’t break.

Hopefully there will be no more arguements… as i don’t see how there can be… when i do nothing, this whole weekend, i spent it in bed… sleeeping… just to pass the time… music and dvds… and i have to get used to the fact that this is how life will be from now on…..

i am officially inked again! lol

tooo tired to update this post right now…. but… these are the tatts! and a vid…i made today…

If I should stay,
I would only be in your way.
So I’ll go, but I know
I’ll think of you ev’ry step of the way.

And I will always love you.
I will always love you.
You, my darling you. Hmm.

Bittersweet memories
that is all I’m taking with me.
So, goodbye. Please, don’t cry.
We both know I’m not what you, you need.

And I will always love you.
I will always love you.

(Instrumental solo)

I hope life treats you kind
And I hope you have all you’ve dreamed of.
And I wish to you, joy and happiness.
But above all this, I wish you love.

And I will always love you.
I will always love you.
I will always love you.
I will always love you.
I will always love you.
I, I will always love you.

You, darling, I love you.
Ooh, I’ll always, I’ll always love you.

ugh… so … last night i went and got my tattooo… surprisingly it wasn’t as painful as i thought… well.. it wasn’t painful the first time… but i sat there.. just thinking… wow… this is not me.. but u know.. i change all the time.. depending on circumstances… and i guess this is one.. i ate beforehand.. just to be on the safe side of fainting… as… when i had my tongue pierced.. the shock.. nearly knocked me out… and now only to hide them from my parents.

told the cousins that… john and i were over last night… and yeh khoa wasn’t so happy about that.. wanted to smash him up and everything… and i was like .. just leave him alone.. he is in england anyways… and i don’t hate him.. so no need.. but i think he was quite peeved… saying he knows ppl there.. or something.. and can get to him. ugh.. sighs… really…. i just wanna be left alone… in this aspect and leave him alone…

then today dad asks me.. if i am going to see john when i am over there… i’m like i don’t think so…. he asks if we are still talking.. and i’m like not at the moment.. i can’t bring myself to tell my parents that its completely over… because thats hard to me.. i guess i’ll tell them when i come back from my trip.. i should be ok by then… to deal with the questions.

couldn’t sleep last night.. i think i’m sick… either that.. or i feel like i’m coughing up blood… as its the taste that is left in my mouth.. great! not only am i sick… i could be dying! lol.. yeh thats not normal… docs on friday… see whats wrong with me… maybe i should eat!
have to go to travel agent tomorrow to book my other tour…. zzz…. my desire to party has dropped dramatically.

the perfect wedding place

Port stephens… i think i just found the perfect place…..of course by the perfect place.. i mean.. the place i’d love to get married in…
gosh there are sooo many photos… but WOW was all i could say…. here are a few snaps… from my camera.. but penny had the BEST shots!!!!! so… oh wellz.. will have to do with the ones below.

see how gorgeous the place is?!?!!? either way… the photos online did it NO justice…it was a strange feeling… being there… was soooo calming… i will admit that.. being there.. made me think of the wedding that could’ve been… i imagined.. saying my vows… with the white tents.. and.. arch.. it was perfect… the pictures that could’ve been taken… how everything was going to be… the place was perfect.. the time of day was perfect…. and… that would now not happen… with me and john… it was sad…. but at the same time.. it didn’t make me cry.. i loved the place.. i fell in love with everything about it.. and you know.. it was MID WINTER! and it looked THAT great…. it was school holidays and i think only 10ppl were on the beach…. it was in the evening.. and the sun was setting.
Gosh.. i couldn’t let such a place go….. and as much as i wanted to return to this place.. all the time… i said goodbye to it.. and vowed that the next time i visit… would be because i’m getting married on that beach.. with some guy whom.. i don’t know.. right now.. but i found the perfect place…..

It was a sense of calm.. it was one of those relaxing weekends.. no crazy nights.. no drunken nights… just relaxing.. going to the shops… listening to music.. having din din.. and just checking out the sights… it was a small town.. everything closed at midnight.. which we thought was crazy! ehhehee…

A much needed break.. for me to calm down.. i’m not longer.. moping.. or.. sad.. i’m at ease….. the ease of.. everything just being ok… i got a new number.. while i was there.. just to start afresh.. and not be sending a mass sms to anyone.. i guess those that talk to me.. i’ll give the new number to… and i gotta say.. this new one.. is for life! heehhe. i LOVE IT! lets just say… its similar to 0404040404 ahahaha not quite like that.. exactly! but.. u get my drift yeh? lol… gotta see if i can get optus to change my number first… if not.. i guess i will just have to use the other one.. and wait till the optus contract expires.

Felt weird.. well actually it feels abnormal… not being on facebook for awhile… and its kinda more strange that i don’t miss it so much… thought i’d be going through a nervous wreck by now. hahaha. I guess i just had so much emotions go through me lately.. that.. it was the last thing that i thought of… and i figured.. it would be perfect.. not having it.. atm.. i mean.. i leave in 10days! by the time i come back… john won’t be a topic to be asked… or.. my new hair colour… etc…
Sucks.. that him and i never got to spend a bday together… so… that is something that feels.. a bit disappointing.. i mean… new years.. wasn’t great… and xmas was only ok.. easter is omg.. valentines was nice.. it seems thats the only festivity that we enjoyed together. So we couldn’t even make it for a year….. but ultimately.. i guess we were just a wrong make.. the more we were into each others lives.. the more… it wasn’t working… funny that…
i was reading an article… of… is he the one.. and.. it made up alist factor.. well points…

1.We always resolve our conflicts

This allows a couple to move forward. Having conflict is healthy – however, you need to resolve issues and grow. if this doesn’t occur, you can hold onto grudges.
yes? then you have solid communication skills, and can listen and learn from your arguements.
no? you can get stuck in the past and struggle to listen or change your behaviour. Unresolved issues will build up and get blown out of proportion

i guess… me and johno.. didn’t resolve issues… the past was always an issue… and… things did get blown out of proportion.

2. We share all of our feelings, both positive and negative.

this allows a couple to openly bring up any concerns they have with each other and express them with confidence
yes? you feel very safe and secure with each other, and have an honest relationship.
no? you may feel unsure about being yourself around your partner and tend to avoid addressing issues.

yes / no.. we told each other how we felt… but.. at the same time.. i never felt like i could completely be myself.. and i guess he couldn’t either.. coz there were things he wanted to do.. but couldn’t..

3. we have similar cultural, social, intellectual, spiritual and economic backgrounds.

coming from similar background creates understanding and common value systems. A solid platform regarding core beliefs helps a couple move forward as a team.
yes? this creaters acceptance, respect, comfort and ssecurity. You’ll often find a mutual purpose in life and have a good relationship.
no? the road may be rocky unless you’re secure as individuals and both strong in your commitment in the relationship.

no… we were way tooo different from each other culturally.

4. we share the same sense of humour and conversational interests

we can judge a healthy relationship by laughter, good conversations and lots of laughter are a recipe for a loving, long-term outcome.
yes? it allows a couple to just spend time together, enjoying ecah other’s company. You love to talk to each other and can enjoy many of the same interests and hobbies together.
no? if you cannot laugh with your partner, you’ll soon be argueing with them, you can be serious and still have a sense of humour. You may also run out of things to talk about.

no…… we didn’t share the same interests… or hobbies… we ended up running out of things to say…

5. having a good sexual relationship

lovemaking is a really wonderful way for couples to bond. It reassures the partner that they are loved and cared for. Its a great way to feel connected.
yes? are integral to continued happiness , nuturing and joy within the intimate realms of life together…
no? you lask passion together and feel lonely and disconnected.

yes.. i enjoyed being initmate with him… and i think he does with me as well… so.. this is good.

6. you each like each others friends and family.

it certainly helps a relationship when u can enjoy friends and family together. Socialising in a wider circle and having the support of family and friends, if makes life much easier when your’re not resentful of each others important relationships… and your involvement in them.
yes? you’re able to become part of the family unit. Connecting with their family and friend groups helps us to understand the dynamics of their relationship as an “insider”
no? you should watch out for socialising seperately, avoiding family gatherings and having arguements over social activities and family influence.

no….yeh… this one was obvious… there were only certain ppl.. but not alot.

—————————————

wow.. reading that was definitely an eye opener… and thinking about everything.. which made things… ok.. in my heart.. i’ll always love him.. but we are just tooo different to make things work… we just weren’t right for each other after all… shame that… because i really thought he was my one…
i’m gonna enjoy my trip… and come back… a better person… by that i mean… feel ok… not mopy.. suicidal etc… i’m ok now.. and i hope he is…. but i think thats all it would ever be..as i can never be friends with him… so… he can only be a memory… and a good one…

On a different note.. i may get a tattoo done today. well i went in to a couple of places was busy.. unless i come back monday… or.. tonight.. if the walk in one at kingscross is free.. and can do it. *fingers crossed* gonna get…………

IX
.
IX
.
XO

eheheh its my bday in roman numerals.. except for xo. thats just kisses and hugs. as 82 was tooo long.. and its going to go down my ribcage…. its 09.. the year.. of my obsessed bday date.. and.. its a year i’ll always remember for so many reasons… so it seems just like what i wanted to do….

he is right….

you know.. i figured out today.. that he is right….
i should deal with this… there is no point in sitting around feeling sorry for myself…
its been over a month since he has been gone…. i shouldn’t be like this. Because obviously.. we both ain’t willing to put anything in it… he isn’t fighting..i’m not fighting… so really.. there is no point in just holding onto memories.

Heartache or what not.. sitting at home… isn’t helping me.. and you know what? hope doesn’t do it for me either.
We had a fight last night.. which is good… this way… we stop talking to each other.. and dragging this process more and more out….

i should look forward.. to… a new me… hahaha. lol. if that makes sense….and come monday… booking the rest of my tour.. seeing as i’m away this weekend.. a mini holiday… just before my big holiday! heehehee

5 weeks in europe… should be fun.. i’m single.. i’m going on a crazy tour… and.. should def. have the time of my life.. and experience new things… like staying in a hostel.. for the first time of my life.. and travelling soooo alone. lol. (sounds scary doesn’t it? )… i say 5… although i am still contemplating going home later… which is more likely… at this stage.. there is this 1 more tour i’d like to go on… lets say.. finish my trip off with a bang? lol. a mini bday present to myself!!!!
Oh well… this year.. no bday parties… even though.. the date is perfect… 09/09/09.. now seriously.. and people wonder why my favourite number is 9. lol.

My dad told me not to go over and fall in love again. hahahaa sighs.. SO not going to do that… i think i’ll stick to someone close to home.. like in the same state at least! Well… at least i feel better today… last night was… good… it really was an ending. He made it clear.. so there isn’t hope anymore…
plus waking up at 3am…. this morning.. lying in bed…. just thinking about everything… helped alot.

lets turn this blog around…… its just been soooo emo lately.

Port stephens in 2 hours.. woot.. excited… i hope the weather is nice.. well..today is nice.. its sunny.. but obviously going up north means its warmer!

‘and this is where the story ends’

so… last night i decide to go to bed early… i have just been sooo tired lately.. with the whole staying up late to talk to johno.. and the whole waking up early of late.. to argue and cry about him.. had taken its toll… plus with work… and my headaches of late… it seemed good…

plus i didn’t wnt to stay up… staring at my inbox.. or something… to see him magically pop online, which i know… i blocked myself from.. on all his accounts. So really… i don’t know why i think that.

As usual… i wake up in the middle of the night… i don’t know why… but it sems to be a reaccuring thing now… i can’t just sleep all the way through… i so don’t know how i will survive europe… like this… i’m thinking.. maybe i need some sleeping pills… to knock me out…. so i can just sleeep away this pain i have…
Either way.. i wake up… only to receive an email from him… asking for his bank details… so that he can close his assie bank account. Then my email automated msg replied as deleted account.. as he responded huh? i figured he thought i responded to him, so i emailed him to say that i’ll get the details when i’m at work tomorrow.. and he can close it then…
Edited my ’soon to be nonexistant’ automated msg.. as.. deleting this email account.. shall update those of you later…

Went back to sleep…. woke up again… and i get a response of him.. saying thanks… and… how.. he will wait for me.. or something… and if our love was strong enough it’ll happen. WTF… what is he trying to do? i’m not a yo-yo… my heart can’t be played like this… if he ends things…. then finish me off… don’t give me words… that i’ll hold onto.. as a reason of hope… knowing.. wishing… thinking that i could have hm back in my life again….
i’m already miserable right now because of him…. because i feelsoooo empty….just nothing…nothing….nothing…………i feeel like stabbing myself… and watching the blood seeep from me… would be better than this pain that he is putting me through…..
[mental note... i used to be suicidal... since i was about as young as i can remember to about 22... ]

He goes to say…. that i should fight for him…. fight…. i did… i agreed to see him and visit him… we were happy.. i was happy… i had foolishly opened my whole heart and let him back in…. and i thought it was for life again… i was back in that state of happy ever afters… and it was a matter of.. weeks before i got to see him … and then… he took all that….. and just shredded it to pieces… and chucked it away… i’m too tired…. i’m too heartbroken… i’m tooo empty… to do anything anymore.

I still gave him a chance though… because.. i was hoping… just hoping…. that.. he wanted me.. and that.. he was a fool to have done what he did… but he didn’t… it was adament in everything that he was saying… that.. this was it.. it was over.. he said.. he was too tired to fight for me anymore. [tears]

And so… that was that….. i said he had a couple of hours till i booked the rest of my tour and accomodation… or else.. that is goodbye forever…..
no response…. and this is where i am delusional… i’m hoping.. that he fell asleep… or.. ran out of credit…. or anything….. bu having goodbye as final…. and so… i still haven’t booked my trip… and figured,… i’ll wait till tongiht.. when he is awake… and maybe there is some hope out there.. that.. he does want this.. wants me.. loves me that much… sighs… thats what hope does… it sets you up for disappointment… or in my case.. setting myself up for another night of tears…. and heartache….

Going away to port stephens this weekend… with penny.. aaah the place.. where me and john were thinking of getting married… sighs… this should be fun… i just wanna get drunk.. the whole weekend.. so i can drown in my own sorrow and not think about him…

I finally took off the ring today… and chucked it in the bottom drawer.. as i kissed it goodbye… [tears]… my fingers look so naked and bare.. doesn’t quite feel or look normal.. all of a sudden… but i can’t go on pretending…. dads worried.. he asked me last night if i wanted to eat.. he’ll prepare it.. go get wateva i want.. from anywhere.. must be that bad.. it was like he knew what was going on…. ahh yes.. i’ve gone back to not eating… again… not that i really was before… but at least.. gave the illusion that i did…..
Deleted his numbers today…. this was hard…. as i stared at the screen for maybe tooo long than i should… trying to memorise it.. but nothing.. my head.. is all but a fuzz… and it was gone… so now.. i have nothing… i have no way… to contact him.. and he is too proud.. and too arrogant to message me… because he is done… like he said. So…
unless he was asleep… / no credit…or watever…

this is where the story of John and i end………